When Delta State Governor Emmanuel Uduaghan hosted the Senate Committee on Constitution Review, he found time to engage journalists on salient issues. Group Political Editor Bolade Omonijo, who was there, presents the governor’s thought provoking views.
What is your impression about the visit of the Senate Committee on Constitutional Review to your state?
What has happened today is that we are highly honoured as a state to host the Senate Committee on Constitution Review. Their coming has enriched us as a state, it has exposed us. But specifically, today’s event is quite interesting because everybody is eager to do something about our constitution. There is no doubt that no constitution is perfect. Because of our experience in the last 13 years or so in dealing with the constitution, many people have experienced the flaws and they believe we need to do some changes. People in government, executive, legislature and judiciary, who have been using the constitution to manage the country, they have seen the weaknesses. So everybody, whether you are in or outside government, believes that we need to deal with the constitution and I believe that what will come out at the end will be the people’s constitution because what has been discussed today did not just start today.
You raised different issues at the event, which of them is most important?
For us in the south-south and as a state, the issue is really, what kind of federation are we practicing? People have had their own definition of federation, ‘you either have a federation or you don’t have it, there is nothing like a false or true federation’; those are academic arguments as far as I am concerned. The truth is, if we say we are in a federation, are we really practicing federalism the way it should be? The answer is no. So for us in the south-south, I said, ‘let us practice federalism the way it is known worldwide. What does that mean? There is a centre and the various states. In a real federation, the states are not appendages of the centre. There is no one big man up there and then you have the small men, and then the big man will start distributing crumbs to the small men down there, which seems to be happening now. What we are saying is this; there are 36 states and a federal government; for us, we will call it 37 governments. Yes, the federal government is bigger than the others but there are 37 governments in Nigeria. And the various governments should be able to manage their affairs, somehow independently, with all of us converging at the centre.
Specifically, what would you like to see?
We are saying that as a federation, the federal government is taking too many things and should be confined to certain areas and let the states do a lot more than they are doing now. Why should the federal government go to build primary schools and healthcare centres or boreholes? We believe that the states should handle that. But in so doing, we also need to review the allocation formula. I hear people say that the states should be generating their IGR but the reality is that Nigeria today still depends on oil, you can call it 65 or 70, whatever percentage. Most of the revenue today, either at the federal or state, we still depend on oil. That is the situation, there has to be a proper way of dealing with the funds that come from the oil: who gets what? Who has the right to get what? And we the states of the Niger Delta, the oil-producing communities, because of the challenge we have and the difficulties in the terrain and in developing our area, justice and fair play demands we should be getting 100 per cent and paying tax at the centre. But if that arrangement is not on, then they should increase the derivation to the various oil-producing areas. And then we are also talking about security, today, every part of this country is talking about one form of security problem or another and we think that with our long history we need to review our security arrangement and one of the areas that we believe should be reviewed is that states should have their own police. And from what I have heard today, for me, I think that seems to be one of the most exciting parts. Now, agree that there should be a state police, what is left is what should be the relationship between the state police and the federal police. And how do we ensure that when the state police is put up it wont be abused by the governor; those are fine issues that can be discussed. But as for the issue of having a state police, everybody knows that if we don’t go that way, our security challenges will continue to get worse.
You mentioned that the derivation formula should be revised, to what percentage are you suggesting?
The minimum should be 50 per cent.
When is Delta State likely to have a local government election? Secondly, why have you reacted to the Kidnapping Bill the way you have reacted even though you are the most affected?
On the issue of local government, there are two federating units in Nigeria, the federal government and the states. Look at the Nigerian law, the truth is that the local government is not a federating unit; the House of Assembly can make laws for the governing of local government council. That is to clarify the issue of federating units. In the state, in my first tenure, I did a local government election so you cannot accuse me that I haven’t conducted a local government election before. Unfortunately, their tenure finished sometime last year. And you know we had the highest number of elections in Delta State at about that period. The tenure of that local government finished and almost at the same time, the tenure of the Delta State Independent Electoral Commission (DSIEC) expired. Unfortunately too, the DSIEC we have been having also had its own challenges, in the sense that the membership of the DSIEC with the old law is lopsided and there have always been complain about the membership; some senatorial districts have more than others. So we sent an amendment to the House to ensure that there is equity and justice in the representation at the commission level. That has been passed; we are just collating the list now which we will send to the House. Once the DSIEC is put off, we will give them 3-4 months and we will do election. I want to do election, I don’t run away from it; I have been a governor when a local government election was done before and I think it can be done again, I don’t have problems with that.
The second question was about the kidnapping. First, what happened was that at the time the bill was passed, I didn’t give accent to it. Then they started a second one and between the time they brought it I was also not in office and all the things that has followed and so the lifespan of that assembly passed. They have resuscitated that bill, they have heard a public hearing, they have not quite finished; it has not been brought back to me. When they were doing the public hearing, I sent my Attorney-General to give them my own view. And one of the things I did send him to do was to tell them that I don’t believe in death sentence for any crime because death sentence has not stopped any crime in this world. Instead, sometimes, it has made the crime more deadly. Right now, people that are being kidnapped, we are able to get them in one way or the other. I believe that if we now put a death sentence, the kidnappers may become more desperate knowing that if they are caught they will be killed, thus some of them might start killing more of their victims. We have the case of Anini in Benin City who was executed publicly but yet robbery did not stop. I also believe that all human beings have the right to life, it is my principle. But the bill has not come back to me, I need to correct that impression. When they bring it back to me and I look at it, then I will let you know whether it is acceptable or not. Right now, there is no dispute between the executive and the legislature.
There is the fear of possible disintegration of the country, what is your view?
It is not possible. Forget it. Nigeria will not break up. Nobody is contemplating a breakup.
In Nigeria recurrent expenditure is very high. What could be the cause of this?
On the issue of the budget, if you pick up any budget in this country now, most of them are deficit. What does that mean? You come out with a budget in which you want to execute N100 billion project, but realistically, what you are expecting is N60 billion from the allocation and the IGR. But because of the policies, people force you to put some projects and when it gets to the Assemblies, either national or state, one project is added and all that, such that by the time the process finishes, the expenditure itself is quite high. But there is another aspect that people do not consider, how do you get the money to it? It is like your salary and loan can only by you a Toyota, meanwhile you are budgeting for a Mercedes. Now, you are ready to buy the Mercedes but the money you have is just for a Toyota and you are insisting you must buy the Mercedes; you already have a deficit. That is how most budget in this country is. At the end of the day, that deficit, you might have to look for a loan to be able to bridge that gap. And of course, you can’t consistently take loan every year because as you are taking the loan, you must pay back.
Then secondly, when you budget at the beginning of the year, before the end of the year, something comes to distort your budget. Maybe midway there is a wage increase that shoots up your expenditure. Sometimes, there is a problem with our exchange rate and that increases the cost of contracts; you award a contract for N10 but because of exchange rate by the end of the year, there is inflation. We have a lot of things that combine to make it difficult to execute the budget. Now, what have we tried to do? We have to be realistic; there is no way I can tar all the roads in Delta State, but everybody expects me to tar the roads to his village, to his house; my friends, my brothers, my political associates, they all want me to do everything, but it is not just possible for me to do everything. Even classmates that you have not seen since primary school, once you become a governor, they surface and they expect you to do something for them. Nobody borders about how you get the money but they want you to do something for them. but you cant also blame them because if I were in their position, I would look for my classmates if they get into positions. So we have that challenge of having deficit budget; of course if you have a deficit budget the performance is definitely going to reduce.
You mentioned that oil-producing states should be given 50 per cent derivation, meanwhile some people are calling for state creation, how do you reconcile that?
That I need 50 per cent derivation is my own pain, another person’s pain is to create states, another person’s pain is to create local government. So let us put all our requirements on the table and negotiate.
You are the brain behind Delta Beyond Oil concept, what does it entail?
The concept of Delta Beyond Oil is that when states that are oil producing get funds from Federal Government as allocation because of our oil producing status, what I am saying is that we can use those funds no matter how small they are, to develop other areas of the economy which is almost totally zero now. Let us develop other areas of the economy so that in future whether near or far; oil is not something you can rely on fully, there might be fall in price, it can finish, so that in future whether we have oil or not we can have a stable economy. What has happened is that because we have oil, we seemed to have forgotten the other areas of the economy not just in this state alone even in the nation.
Delta State is a rich state like Akwa Ibom, but is the state spending judiciously?
Really I hate comparisons; that was why when you said we are rich i wanted to be clear on what the richness is about. The state you called now, our allocation is not as much as theirs. It has never been since the past 5 years; we don’t have the same allocation. Two, states have different problems and challenges. This is the only state or maybe Ondo, where whatever we get, especially the derivation part, the governor does not spend all the derivation money. What we are talking about now, when it comes, i have to divide it into two; 50% goes to the state level and 50% goes to an outfit we call the Delta State Area Development Commission, to be able to deal with the oil producing communities. I needed to explain that so that when you are talking about being rich, i have that going on. So the bit that is left is what I have to use for the whole state including the oil producing area. I still have to deal with them from this money. Two, I have a challenge of having the highest urban centres in Nigeria. In Delta State, there is Asaba, there is Warri, there is Agbor, there is Sapele, there is Ughelli; and all of them are urban centres that can be state capitals. When you doing something in Asaba you also have to be conscious that you are doing something in some of these places; it might not be as much as what you are doing in Asaba but whatever you are doing in Asaba you have to do near that in Warri. We have many urban centres that you have to pay attention to at the same time. you go to some states and the state capitals are the only urban centres and people are assessing from just getting to the state capitals. You go to some states, you stop at the capital and you leave there and assess but you cannot do that Delta. You cannot come to Asaba and assess from only Asaba and go back, a lot of people will take on you if you make assessment from only Asaba. That means that our development has to be more widespread than many other places. When people say, ‘He is not doing much’ they don’t take some of these factors into place. In any case, people have different programmes, I am not on a popularity test. If I want to be on a popularity test, I will just come as a governor and ask what the people like, maybe renovate all the schools and leave other things undone.
